Comments on: Reflection on Black Saturday – The Virgin Birth http://www.stevensim.org/2009/04/the-virgin-birth/ Words are more treacherous and powerful than we think - Jean-Paul Sartre Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:16:25 +0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: joshuawoo http://www.stevensim.org/2009/04/the-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-1595 joshuawoo Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:34:21 +0000 http://www.stevensim.org/?p=637#comment-1595 If I'm not wrong, Paul didn't refer or even implied Christ as 'creation'. If you are referring to Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15, Paul's drawing of Christ as the 'last Adam' was to emphasize the sufficiency of Christ's cosmic renewal power. Not on his origin. Christ's body doesn't need to be created (out of nothing) in the same way a plant which came from a seed is not a new creation, but something which developed naturally from the seed. Christ took on kenosis in eternity when the creation and covenant is being brought into existent. This goes along Barth's somewhat famous argument that the Creation is <i>for</i> the Covenant, and the Covenant <i>undergirds & orders</i> the Creation. If I’m not wrong, Paul didn’t refer or even implied Christ as ‘creation’. If you are referring to Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15, Paul’s drawing of Christ as the ‘last Adam’ was to emphasize the sufficiency of Christ’s cosmic renewal power. Not on his origin.

Christ’s body doesn’t need to be created (out of nothing) in the same way a plant which came from a seed is not a new creation, but something which developed naturally from the seed. Christ took on kenosis in eternity when the creation and covenant is being brought into existent.

This goes along Barth’s somewhat famous argument that the Creation is for the Covenant, and the Covenant undergirds & orders the Creation.

]]> By: Steven Sim http://www.stevensim.org/2009/04/the-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-1572 Steven Sim Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:12:58 +0000 http://www.stevensim.org/?p=637#comment-1572 Jesus' physical body needs to be created. "A body you have prepared for me"...and Paul was the one who drew the analogy between Adam and Jesus as the second Adam. I only follow traditions. :D Jesus’ physical body needs to be created. “A body you have prepared for me”…and Paul was the one who drew the analogy between Adam and Jesus as the second Adam. I only follow traditions. :D

]]> By: joshuawoo http://www.stevensim.org/2009/04/the-virgin-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-1570 joshuawoo Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:47:39 +0000 http://www.stevensim.org/?p=637#comment-1570 Ya, if these groups really want to be consistent, they must go ad infinitum. One one hand I fully agree with the obsession to ground sinlessness in the virgin birth, yet on the other hand, I'm reserved over the language of "God <i>created</i> Jesus" and drawing analogy from Adam. Jesus incarnated instead of being "created". But I know that your analogy from Adam is not descriptive of the incarnation, but just an illustration of the strangeness of God's act, which we seldom able to apprehend. Just that it sounds like gnosticism that thinks Jesus as a creation. But again, I know you dont mean that. Happy Easter!! Sunday Came!! Ya, if these groups really want to be consistent, they must go ad infinitum.

One one hand I fully agree with the obsession to ground sinlessness in the virgin birth, yet on the other hand, I’m reserved over the language of “God created Jesus” and drawing analogy from Adam. Jesus incarnated instead of being “created”.

But I know that your analogy from Adam is not descriptive of the incarnation, but just an illustration of the strangeness of God’s act, which we seldom able to apprehend. Just that it sounds like gnosticism that thinks Jesus as a creation. But again, I know you dont mean that.

Happy Easter!! Sunday Came!!

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